Ironic how the downhill feels easier in the moment but takes way more of a toll in the long run. Great life parallels here. As I train longer distances, I’m finding the downhill work is actually where I need to condition my body and incorporate some of the skills you laid out in order to productive endure. Great stuff brother
"The Canyons" during the Western States 100 is such a suck for this very reason. Mile 43-48, and 48-56 will suck your will to live. Heat of the day, almost halfway done, and you get two intervals of down to the river (High Humidity and 90+), then climb out. Eccentric load and fry the quad, then ask it to push hard uphill, then do it again. My legs are experiencing PTSD while I type this...
OK, I went out today for more downhill and the uphill required. Can you clarify the lean forward at the ankles? You suggest not bending at the waist, OK. I feel like I’m missing something. (I know what you’re thinking… damn Army puke.) I feel like I need to be leaning back a bit against the slope, if I’m leaning forward, especially with a pack, I’m going to be accelerating, I think.
When trying to move downhill fast with a load, a lot of people lean forward at the waist. This can screw with your balance and compress your lungs, making it harder to breathe. On really steep hills you may need to lean back but that can cause overstriding, and hard heel striking and I find that I tend to hyper-extend my knees. My technique for downhill is to keep soft knees (not locked out) and to try to step as flat as I can (this is what I ment by leaning forward at the ankles). The slight bend in the knee allows the ankle to flex forward. Then if you do need to lean back to control speed on a steep downhill you are essentially leaning back from the waist and forward at the knee/ankle. I hope this helps. Ofcourse, the other key point is that if what younare doing works for you, keep doing it. Thanks for the question Marshall! And I would never think of you as an Army puke!
Thanks for the detailed explanation John. I’ll try it again. What I do works for sure, but as I get older, the more efficient I can be the better this old body serves me. Every trail here is steep and of course it’s somewhere between 6,000 and 11,000 feet. I need all the help I can get.
OK, thank you very much, John, landing with my foot as flat as possible was the key trigger for me. It all came together today. Who says you can’t teach an (very) old dog new tricks?
Thanks for this excellent info John. Wish I’d read it sooner. Yesterday I did a 4 mile loop with a 35lb ruck. 1500’ up and inevitably, 1500’ down. My knees are talking to me. I sound and feel like a wimp after you guys talking about 100 K endurance runs. Perhaps not too bad for an average 78-year-old, but who wants to be average, 78-year-old or otherwise?
For years I've been using poles, but I decided to stop using them a couple of years ago because I think I can move faster without them and it forces me to improve my balance when negotiating obstacles. They can help on downhills but maybe it’s a bad crutch. Do you have an opinion on the use of poles?
Pretty solid performance, Marshall! Downhills are a bitch. I’ve used poles on some events, but usually find that I wind up carrying them and not using them. Although, they have saved my ass a few times.
Ironic how the downhill feels easier in the moment but takes way more of a toll in the long run. Great life parallels here. As I train longer distances, I’m finding the downhill work is actually where I need to condition my body and incorporate some of the skills you laid out in order to productive endure. Great stuff brother
"The Canyons" during the Western States 100 is such a suck for this very reason. Mile 43-48, and 48-56 will suck your will to live. Heat of the day, almost halfway done, and you get two intervals of down to the river (High Humidity and 90+), then climb out. Eccentric load and fry the quad, then ask it to push hard uphill, then do it again. My legs are experiencing PTSD while I type this...
In my first 100K , the original Great Eastern Endurance Run, I his a similar section. It’s brutal!
OK, I went out today for more downhill and the uphill required. Can you clarify the lean forward at the ankles? You suggest not bending at the waist, OK. I feel like I’m missing something. (I know what you’re thinking… damn Army puke.) I feel like I need to be leaning back a bit against the slope, if I’m leaning forward, especially with a pack, I’m going to be accelerating, I think.
When trying to move downhill fast with a load, a lot of people lean forward at the waist. This can screw with your balance and compress your lungs, making it harder to breathe. On really steep hills you may need to lean back but that can cause overstriding, and hard heel striking and I find that I tend to hyper-extend my knees. My technique for downhill is to keep soft knees (not locked out) and to try to step as flat as I can (this is what I ment by leaning forward at the ankles). The slight bend in the knee allows the ankle to flex forward. Then if you do need to lean back to control speed on a steep downhill you are essentially leaning back from the waist and forward at the knee/ankle. I hope this helps. Ofcourse, the other key point is that if what younare doing works for you, keep doing it. Thanks for the question Marshall! And I would never think of you as an Army puke!
Thanks for the detailed explanation John. I’ll try it again. What I do works for sure, but as I get older, the more efficient I can be the better this old body serves me. Every trail here is steep and of course it’s somewhere between 6,000 and 11,000 feet. I need all the help I can get.
OK, thank you very much, John, landing with my foot as flat as possible was the key trigger for me. It all came together today. Who says you can’t teach an (very) old dog new tricks?
Thanks for this excellent info John. Wish I’d read it sooner. Yesterday I did a 4 mile loop with a 35lb ruck. 1500’ up and inevitably, 1500’ down. My knees are talking to me. I sound and feel like a wimp after you guys talking about 100 K endurance runs. Perhaps not too bad for an average 78-year-old, but who wants to be average, 78-year-old or otherwise?
For years I've been using poles, but I decided to stop using them a couple of years ago because I think I can move faster without them and it forces me to improve my balance when negotiating obstacles. They can help on downhills but maybe it’s a bad crutch. Do you have an opinion on the use of poles?
Pretty solid performance, Marshall! Downhills are a bitch. I’ve used poles on some events, but usually find that I wind up carrying them and not using them. Although, they have saved my ass a few times.